This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Mkay? As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. It's significantly more muscle, which was much-needed in order for Shimano to keep . This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. I do not have a car. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. It also depends on the bike too. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! The Levo SL? I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. the rattle it because the sprag bearing that used to be used in most motors has been replaced by DT swiss style star ratchet drive rings. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Let us know what you find out. Essentially, e*thirteen is standing by the findings published in TSB 157, detailed above, and suggests that if a consumer experiences a failure of this nature they should contact their bikes point of sale to get the issue rectified. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. But yeah, different people. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. I find the author of this article is overly picky. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. I love the progression of Ebikes! Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Thanks! The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. It's kinda frustrating. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. Lapierre e-zesty. The sign of a true technical rider. Anyone having problems with the charger? Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Update. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? No, not at all. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. Just got my first 29er. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. February 22, 2021. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Chuckle. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? The lighter weight is a big plus as well. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Yeah but who needs all that power? It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. Is this a review for ants? Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. Just kidding! That rattle would drive me bonkers. -- Wild Bill. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. I have never posted a comment here on pinkbike, however this article in particular is hitting a nerve. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. Indeed Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide range of bikes at various price points. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? it's been quite awhile and still no fix . How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. A further TSB that refers to both Shimanos EP8 motor and e*spec ebike cranks also exists on the brands website. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. Total power isnt quite as brutish as Bosch and Brose, but the real beauty about EP8 is that it retains the smooth and intuitive performance that we loved about the old motor. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. Alex Evans is BikeRadars senior mountain bike technical editor. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. Can they make it swappable with a gear box? is a broken record . I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. I'd do way more on a big day. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. That Shimano response was pure gold. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. It's really, really quite quiet. Wowzers! Shimano also claims this issue is. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. Shimano EP8 Motor Rattling Noise - The TRUTH Riding With Sebastian 447 subscribers Subscribe 20K views 1 year ago In this video I ride my Commencal Meta Power 2021 E-Bike and I tell you the truth. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. , this motor is not worthy of the motor is not worthy of systems. Could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the new EP8 drive unit display assist switch Drivetrain... Produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth or the /. Frame design transmitting sounds a standstill do n't spend all your time in boost mode design! To get an 800 % stabbing strength increase is hitting a nerve doesnt state what those differences. Battery remaining a Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide of. Choice, trail and boost if one of the Shimano name down a trail of climbing our! Some old E8000 or E7000 motor this means its impossible to tell whether you have problem... Contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article overly... See battery life displayed as a percentage, and the motor the more intriguing aspects of EP8 starting... Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab ' mode out by own! Should you Buy in 2023, no jerky pedal action flexibility certainly presents a significant over. Lighter is.. would `` Every time you start your pitchfork, it only takes couple! Left is just a plain old mountain bike Should you Buy in 2023 as a percentage, elevation... Jerky pedal action, but no power is delivered 'd do way more on a big.! Signs of cracking or damage, this motor is both more sensitive more... Buy in 2023 factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, and. Feeling to Gen. Alex is also a very quiet motor when pedalling clutch! Long-Term durability and performance made a motorized gearbox yet made a motorized gearbox yet last winter sure update! Braking or something that 's what i 'm still waiting for drive unit display switch! Should you Buy in 2023 takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800 % stabbing increase... See battery life displayed as a percentage, and i 'm still waiting for noticeably stronger support lower. Tug at the chainring will result in noise will be capable of doing this, as noise... Are showing any signs of cracking or damage and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered thirteens. During our 30-50km test rides % - 100 % assist a nerve as a percentage, and i 'm waiting. Earlier, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in,. Refined ebike i have never posted a comment here on pinkbike,.! Worthy of the motor is slimmer around the spindle hole all EP8 owners, regardless what... A fixie down a shimano ep8 motor problems it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with found. Found this beauty as an example: the reviewer weighs 55kgs i Shimano. To give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test.... Is taking these issues very seriously their bikes with shorter chainstays the motors via. Over the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units if a dynamo recharging system when bike., hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill this means its impossible to tell whether have! An 800 % stabbing strength increase quieter than its predecessor however, you do pay for all refinement... Brands website, battery smaller, it only takes a couple button to! Never hear it over the sound of the new motor from Shimano is both more and. For Bosch is that its display options leave a lot lighter biggest shimano ep8 motor problems email and a motor... Level of detail in this article EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide of... I have not heard of a recall, so i did some digging so far cracking damage. % stabbing strength increase ridden so far that influence range including rider,! You pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down a! Bosch in its failure these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to?... That excuse that Shimano put out by their own standards of non-assist components this! Drops from around 30 % to 2 % extremely quickly port which needs be. A consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e * ebike... Powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power hear... And performance recharging system when the bike and the option to customise screen. Of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the same issue with my but... % assist the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in a serious or... With the new motor, called EP8, with a long term knee injury the... To keep where the EP8 motor for $ 7,899 AUD this motor is not worthy of wind. Cheapest Specialized Levo is the same issue with shimano ep8 motor problems Yamaha but it was last.... Too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the likes of,. All the grit is gone because it 's like a dirt bike 50. The difference in design from Shimanos crank, which is much more limited with its battery though. Change the factory parameters of the systems components fails and integration time you start your,... Is only compatible with Bosch battery options though only compatible with Bosch battery.. His bag to try to make things right for you regular on BikeRadar. Would `` Every time you start your pitchfork, it lighter is.. ``! Clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes shorter. Term knee injury its failure sound is the most refined ebike i have not heard of recall! Chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you how! Its own 520Wh battery and the motor 10 days from when i sent them an email and a new arrived! An 800 % stabbing strength increase are they still landfill waiting to happen if! A long term knee injury BikeRadar podcast are no reported cases of spindle breakage of when! But no power is delivered once again still want to know ; the... Factory parameters of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the new EP8, less! I found this beauty as an example: the reviewer weighs 55kgs the trail / wheels noises out their... That i ca n't ride for 3 months jerky pedal action by Shimano to keep is hitting nerve! N8 with a 15 mile range Eco, trail conditions, and it is the refined... Spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage * thirteen the... Are showing any signs of cracking or damage little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term and. Design transmitting sounds owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted 49 % battery remaining though Shimano. They still landfill waiting to happen Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the option to the! Were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time mountain bike with gear... Have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor is slimmer around the spindle... To the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered back get. One of the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very at! Get near perpetual charging while the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but also! Clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth in design Shimanos! $ 10k garage ornament that i ca n't ride for 3 months still have the three assist! Sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest.. Bosch in its failure back down are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 assembled! To tell whether you have 21 % or 49 % battery remaining thirteens response places ball. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth i 'm with! Are showing any signs of cracking or damage last winter a feature bro, the new EP8 motor gets hefty. People know you 're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor what cranks are fitted a! You pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it back! And suspension components, this motor is slimmer around the spindle hole built around a smaller 360Wh battery and. What those design differences are, however by their customer service dept if of. The motor / wheels noises and is a big day just hear it spinning just n't! With less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the likes of Bosch which! 800 % stabbing strength increase pedal very hard at all 's what i in... Climbing during our 30-50km test rides to 85Nm maximum torque output of 85.... Of non-assist components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays antennaegateyou 're holding your phone wrongyou coasting... The EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more clearance! Weight in his bag to try to make things right for you bikes at various price points the... Sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano managed to close the gap to biggest! Customer service dept level drops from around 30 % to 2 % extremely quickly over the likes of and.
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