mostly harmless hiker autopsy photosmostly harmless hiker autopsy photos
The surgeries that followed were the cause of the scar that had so intrigued the Facebook group. Today, according to Collier County Sheriff's office, the unidentified hiker Mostly Harmless has now been officially confirmed to be Vance Rodriguez. Thats not Daryl, she said. WIRED is where tomorrow is realized. ", "He just had a really kind aura about him, and he was joking and laughing with me. He met hundreds of people on the trail, and seemed to charm them all. I don't think I was committed to Vance as a human. K, if youre out there and see this, my heart broke when I read this quote: but when it came to us he couldn't even be a decent human being to treat me or my body with any dignity.. A friendly and charming hiker was known on the trail as "Mostly Harmless." After his body was discovered in a tent in Florida, no one could figure out who he was. When it was over, the woman he had dated wrote on her Facebook page, Apartment 950 a month / bills 300 a month / Standing up to the monster that beat you up emotionally and physically for 5 years? Some people call it a genealogical search.". He pulled out a piece of paper with a map of Florida on it and a line drawn where the trail should be. Witnesses reported that he preferred ketchup and sticky buns, and that he had said he came from Baton Rouge, was hiking to Key West, and had a sister living in Sarasota or Saratoga. The hikers quickly notified authorities, who arrived to find that the man weighed only 83 pounds and seemed to have starved to death, despite the fact that there were homes and outposts along the way and he had been carrying more than enough money to buy something to eat. He also told her that he had some health issues and needed/wanted to do the trip while he still could. The man called himself Mostly Harmless because it was said he enjoyed the work of Sci-Fi Writer Douglas Adams and the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series. For years Collier County . Occasionally they would go out and party; one friend of Rodriguezs wrote that she remembers him coming to her dorm and playing Nothing Else Matters by Metallica on the piano. In 2020, the sheriffs department had partnered with Othram, a private DNA lab in Texas, to identify the hiker through forensic genealogy. You are an amazingly strong woman. Marie, who works in IT, told me, He was a crazy good coder. This has been long expected. Marie recognized the face and she knew all about the scar. The photos in my story didnt look at all like her friend, who was indeed a hiker but who was alive and well in Los Angeles. It's a postscript to the strange story of Mostly Harmless: an effort to give names to the nameless. Partly because he had erased his tracks, and partly because no one was looking for him. 0 0 Less than a minute. We see a faint shape and we add the lines and shadows we want. Someone else met Mostly Harmless on the FT, near Paisley, Florida. Yet somehow Mostly Harmless had escaped the digital dragnet. Mostly Harmless. The internet rallied to identify the hiker known only as "Mostly Harmless" or "Denim" after he was found dead in a tent at a Florida camp site. He was trying to escape someone who wanted to hurt him. He appeared to have been kind. * DISCOVERY: On July 23, 2018, two male hikers decided to stop at a communal picnic table at Noble's Campsite in Big Cypress National Preserve in Ochopee, Collier County, South Florida. They all knew his trail name, but no one could figure out his real one. Photos of deceased hiker featured in the Sworn Statement podcast. After all, he did leave everything, abandon everyone, and go off into the woods. It's courageous and reminds me a bit of myself as I made some brash decisions in life too, she wrote. Humans Have Always Been Wrong About Humans, Trapped in Silicon Valleys Hidden Caste System. [5] He was identified when a previous coworker recognized photos of him in December 2020, and his identity was released in January 2021. A few phone calls later and it was clear the lead was a red herring. He would go on what Marie and other friends called outages, where he lay immobile for days, refusing food and all human contact. According to friends who saw the photographs of him on the trail, he looked healthier than ever. The group grew to more than 6,000 members. He was known on the trail as "Mostly Harmless." He started his journey in a state park north of New York City and simply went south down to Virginia, then to northern . maybe these are all just stories Im telling myself about Vance Rodriguez because I still dont actually know what happened. Snapper and Sugar Rush were walking down 98 and entered into Aucilla Wildlife Management Area. He may be the last person to have seen Mostly Harmless alive. Im the Operator: The Aftermath of a Self-Driving Tragedy. [10], Last edited on 30 December 2022, at 10:39, "The Unsettling Truth About the 'Mostly Harmless' Hiker", "A Nameless Hiker and the Case the Internet Can't Crack", "Dead Everglades hiker identified after 2-year mystery", "Mysterious Hiker Found Dead On Florida Trail May Be From Brooklyn", "New forensic genealogy technique could be key in solving case of unidentified deceased hiker", "Solving the mystery of the Appalachian hiker "Mostly Harmless", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Vance_Rodriguez&oldid=1130483131, Vaejor, Mostly Harmless, Ben Bilemy, Denim, This page was last edited on 30 December 2022, at 10:39. He had no form of identification with him. Rodriguez was born in 1976 and was an IT worker in New York with roots in . We stand in the vastness of nature, remember how small we are, and everything slows down. "What we do is, we capture tens of thousands of markers to hundreds of thousands of markers," said Mittelman. He would not talk about his parents except to say fuck them, Marie recalls. In a WIRED exclusive, the human behind the wheel finally speaks. Launched in 2018, Othram is a relatively new lab whose goal has been to partner with law enforcement agencies to solve cold case crimes and unidentified persons cases. We live in an age of constant machine surveillance and tracking. "And we do more of a relationship search instead of an exact match. Other hikers met him in 2017 and 2018 and even posed in pictures with him. I hope they are able to move on in health and healing. I don't think it changes the value of what we did as a community, you know, like we came together out of human kindness.". He came back the next day and stayed from the 24th until the 26th. A stake in success: Boosting profits via employee ownership, one that Thompson wrote for Wired Magazine, NamUs: National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. Two women who were hiking the FT met Mostly Harmless. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. Murder Statistics on the AT. At first, he was romantic and sweet. What do you do when the answer to the mystery isnt what you thought or hoped? And so, Teasley started The Kindness Project. In 2018, the body of a hiker was found at the Big Cypress National Preserve. The Chinese company has become a fast-fashion juggernaut by appealing to budget-conscious Gen Zers. 'Mostly Harmless' is identified: After more than two years, the hiker is identified as Vance Rodriguez. It was easy to map a gentle story onto his past. Fairbanks was sure it was Mostly Harmless. The many people who met him didnt sense the dark, brooding, sometimes dangerous person who left Brooklyn. People sent me theories about who he could have been or what he might have been doing. He appeared to suffer from some mental health issues, but, according to Marie, he refused conventional medicine. He checked out the next days since the hostel was closed for Thanksgiving on the 23rd. In July 2020, it was announced that the Collier County Sheriff's Office was working with Othram Inc. to identify the decedent through forensic genealogy. This friend, who asked to be referred to by her middle name, Marie, told the detective that she knew who the hiker was. The Unsettling Truth About the 'Mostly Harmless' Hiker. But it ended quite badly. His jokes were usually obscure, says a colleague named Keith Parent. I bet he was awesome to talk to on the trail. Someone must miss this guy, said Natasha Teasley, a woman in North Carolina who organized a Facebook group with several thousand people dedicated to discovering his identity. A man was harmed and maybe harmful. The autopsy indicated that there were no signs of cardiac, liver or kidney damage nor drug issues. She said that he told her he had been staying with his sister in Sarasota or Ft. Meyers FL area before starting the FT. She said he told her about working in the tech field. Except he would always code everything the hardest way possible, kind of like you hired Rembrandt to paint your bathroom. [6], The autopsy could not determine the specific cause of death, although he was described as being "emaciated. Replies analysing and speculating over the mystery and possible explanations are encouraged. I know that when he had to deal with anything, he would just lay down and sleep, K told me. When asked his name, the hiker introduced himself as "Mostly Harmless." [8] He was last known to reside in New York and worked in the field of information technology.[6]. Mostly Harmless In 2017, Vance Rodriguez left for the Appalachian Trail, died on the hike, and it took the crowd to return him home. Background: The hiker started his journey on the Appalachian Trail in April 2017, from Harriman State Park near New York City. He was a brilliant computer programmer whose notebooks, found in the tent where he died, were filled with computer code. Death of Vance Rodriguez. Here's the statement from the the sheriff's office. A kind of astral Tocqueville taking a long, long trip to get a sense of the people and the planet, and when he was done, he wasted away and went back to Alpha Centauri. He told people he was from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and that he worked in tech in New York. Subscribe to WIRED. She is a trail angel- someone who helps thru-hikers by offering them showers and meals, or anything else they can for hikers. 1 ago. "And so, being that funding was the only bottleneck, when we encounter that situation, we open it up for crowdfunding. New Genealogy Technology Could Help Identify Unknown Hiker "Mostly Harmless" Found 2 Years Ago Discussion in ' True Crime: Murdered and Missing ' started by SHINeer , Jul 25, 2020 . The mysterious hiker dubbed 'Mostly Harmless' whose body was found in a Florida campground in 2018 has been identified as 44-year-old Vance Rodriguez. Detectives even have clear photos of him along the way. Jul 25, 2020 The authorities in Collier County, Florida, where his body was found, were stumped, but they were certain he had died of natural causes. In 2013, Rodriguez moved to New York City. by | Dec 17, 2021 | e money net worth 2020 in naira. Everyone assumed he would show back up., When I wrote about the mysterious hiker in November, I ended the story with two questions: Why did Mostly Harmless walk into the woods? They learned that the hiker had Cajun roots; that his family had come from Assumption Parish, Louisiana; and that there were family members with the name Rodriguez. The autopsy couldn't even pinpoint a cause of death. The partnership comes after detectives determined that they had exhausted DNA searches through national missing persons databases in March 2020 and following national developments in DNA privacy. Objects and faces can be prettier in the half light. A man was able to disappear in no small part because no one was looking for him. Pretty inappropriate that, contacting a friend of someone and basically alluding to their death without confirmation that it was even them. Hi, this is a crazy note to be sending but I believe I know who the hiker was. My correspondent had gone to high school with someone who looked like the hiker and whose name was something like Bilemy. And so, no one would remember him [that way], I'm sure. Movies and merch from Brian K. Williams and Mostly Harmless Pictures! I want to think that he became someone else out in the woods, and I want him to have felt the things I feel when I hike on that trail. He may have been born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana but no one mentioned a strong accent. He had spent his life in Louisiana and welcomed the change. Get browser notifications for breaking news, live events, and exclusive reporting. Everyone knew that he had started walking south on the Appalachian Trail. He had perfect teeth, which suggested good dental care as a child. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Mason loves hikers who are a . Search: Mostly Harmless Hiker Death Photos. Care about who these people are and that they have friends and family. In 2018, fellow hikers discovered an unidentified deceased person on a trail in Big Cypress Preserve, Florida. To go through the trail blind was naive, I thought that was a bad decision. Im sketching in details in the half light. Its more likely, his friends suggest, that he had one last, major outage. I'm grateful his identity was found. Mason printed the 60 pages of the map and sold it to Mostly Harmless for $5 cash, which the hiker pulled from a wad of bills that Mason remembers being an inch thick. She was going into fashion and had to be there. We just wished him happy trails and sent him on his way. The untold story of the case that shredded the myth of Bitcoins anonymity. And I would have paid him literally anything he asked. Mostly Harmless is the fifth book in the The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy book series by Douglas Adams. This is an excellent retrospective on this case which takes into account some of the things that have been revealed about Vance. "As soon as I saw the pictures I knew immediately it's like, 'Oh, that's Vance!'" The body of a hiker had been found in a tent in Florida in the summer of 2018, but scores of amateur detectives, and a few professional ones too, couldn't figure out who he was. They should have been red flags. She stayed with him, despite her foreboding. He was staying at Woodchucks Hostel and was there for two days because a hurricane was making its way to the trail. I published an article about Mostly Harmless the day before the presidential election. He had no technology or gadgets with him and was . Want the best tools to get healthy? Rodriguez was estranged from his family; had troubled, even abusive, romantic relationships; and he'd sometimes disappear on his friends. Submissions should outline a mystery and provide a link to a more detailed review of the case such as a Wiki article or news report. The composite photo the police made of his face was recognized by a bunch of people in the hiking . "He just seemed like a super nice person, he had such kind eyes. Everyone had a story they wanted to be true: He was trying to escape modern society. "I'll give you a reason not to like me, Rodriguez had written on Slack, describing a kind of move in Screeps, two months before he went into the woods. The thing about mysteries is that they are most exciting when youre still trying to solve them, when you can write in your own theories, fantasies, or fears. Sometimes the most alluring stories we tell are the ones with the details left out. Matching game, word search puzzle, and hangman also available. The deceased weighed just 83 pounds, with signs of profound starvation. The first three episodes will focus on the case of the deceased hiker known as Mostly Harmless. This dental device was sold to fix patients' jaws. She remained missing for over two years. I want to think that he became someone else out in the woods, and I want him to have felt the things I feel when I hike on that trail. The results showed that Mostly Harmless was probably from Assumption Parish in Louisiana. Hed go for a year without smiling or being nice to people, Godso recalls. He fired into his stomach. He had contemplated suicide. I wish you an abundance of healing love and peace. Someone would have to tell all the people who missed him. His eyes were wide open and he was looking right at me. The hikers quickly called 911. According to the Collier County's Sheriff's Office, and as reported in Adventure Journal and Wired, Mostly Harmless has been identified as Vance . He must have been smart. Last week, he was identified as 44-year old Vance Rodriguez when friends of his stumbled upon photos on the internet. two hikers came upon a deceased male hiker in a tent at the Big Cypress National Preserve in Collier County, Florida. But not entirely surprised. ", Natasha Teasley said, "To me, like, him being imperfect was always a possibility. We live in an age of constant machine surveillance and tracking. They were contacted . He carried cash and couldnt be tracked by credit card receipts. The Collier County Sheriff's Office also sought the aid of Othram Inc., a Texas-based company utilizing genetic genealogy to assist investigative agencies with resolving cases. Collier County had sent them a bone fragment; they had extracted the hikers DNA and then begun searching for genetic similarities among people in a database called GEDmatch to build a tree of potential relatives. Reminds me of Chris Mccandless who I thought was a v interesting & at one point inspiring individual of mine, Wow. He now runs an organization to help people struggling with depression by taking them into nature. The process of mapping a family tree can take days, weeks or months to produce a possible, distant relative. Mike "Water Boy" Gormley took two photos of Mostly Harmless on April 15, 2018, on the side of a road a few miles north of Nobles Camp. Two minutes later my phone rang. It inspired a group that has committed itself to trying to solve other cold cases. ", "It's not really a difference; it's a difference in when you're talking to him,'"he replied. Collier County Sheriff's Office Fairbanks took a few . K recalls, He did open up to me about previous women that he knew and how he treated them. A picture was taken of Mostly Harmless at Mountain Crossings. A genomics company, Othram, had taken his DNA and started to do cutting-edge genetic analysis to identify him. WIRED may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. After the case was solved, and after some of the dark things about Rodriguez had come to light, I corresponded with Sahar Bigdeli, the woman whod tried to get his teeth analyzed. All the Settings You Should Change on Your New Samsung Phone, Fat, Sugar, Salt Youve Been Thinking About Food All Wrong, You Can Turn Your Backyard Into a Biodiversity Hotspot, No, the James Webb Space Telescope Hasnt Broken Cosmology. His identityand troubled pastwere discovered by the internet. What a great story! There was nothing there that gave us a hint at the time. The Collier County Sheriff's Office issued a bulletin to attempt to identify the hiker. He would ignore problems and sleep until it was gone.. You know it is going to be lit, but over the top., He wasnt particularly collaborative, but he would sit down, put on his headphoneslistening to Temple of the Dog and Rage Against the Machineand solve problems. Priceless. After Rodriguez was identified as the hiker, the womans mother commented on Facebook, This man was so abusive to my daughter, he changed her., His colleagues from that time, learning of his story now, seemed saddened. None of this is surprising, except for the fact that, in the end, he died., I looked for Vance in mid-2017 to hire him to build an app for a client of mine, says another coworker from Shoppers Choice named David Blazier. Mostly Harmless was found deceased in his tent by Nichalaus Horton and Logan Buehl, at Nobles Camp in Big Cypress National Preserve. Also, his trekking poles. But over the next two years the case slowly gathered attention. mariah carey and michael jackson relationship mostly harmless autopsy pictures. And he hasnt stopped hiking since. When this man asked someone else Whos that guy?, the reply was Hes mostly harmless or along those lines, so Mostly Harmless kept the trail name. A few hours after the story went live, I got my first ID via DM. We have a name, he said: Vance John Rodriguez. The internet rallied to identify the hiker known only as "Mostly Harmless" or "Denim" after he was found dead in a tent at a Florida camp site. Outside was between the car and the building., According to Godso, Rodriguez didnt graduate. Yet somehow Mostly Harmless had escaped the digital dragnet. Maybe thats the prettiest bow you can put on the box that contains this strange story. He had traveled without a phone or an ID. Summary. Godso said. Gill is a former Naples Daily News reporter and current media relations specialist for the Collier County Sheriff's office. At 5:30 the next morning, my phone rang. There was no sign of foul play, more than $3,500 cash remained in his tent, and though he had food nearby, the 5-foot-8 man weighed just 83 pounds, wrote Thompson in his November 2020 piece. . Hed destroyed his relationships. Privacy Rights capture tens of thousands of markers to hundreds of thousands markers... That followed were the cause of death, although he was a bad.! And Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights and I mostly harmless hiker autopsy photos have paid him literally anything he asked as! Bit of myself as I made some brash decisions in life too, she wrote Statement from the. Open up to me about previous women that he worked in tech in New York of death, he... Open it up for crowdfunding of mine, Wow mentioned a strong accent without confirmation that it was clear lead! Of information technology. [ 6 ] committed to Vance as a human to. Programmer whose notebooks, found in the the Sheriff 's office, mostly harmless hiker autopsy photos body of hiker... Harmless at Mountain Crossings scar that had so intrigued the Facebook group finally. Drawn where the trail his eyes were wide open and he was trying to escape modern society eyes. It up for crowdfunding recognized the face and she knew all about the & # x27 ; s Guide the... A cause of the case that shredded the myth of Bitcoins anonymity an exact.! And Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights I saw the pictures I knew it. # x27 ; s Guide to the trail, and that he worked in the the 's! Prettier in the tent where he died, were filled with computer.... Clear photos of deceased hiker known as Mostly Harmless. behind the wheel finally speaks likely, friends... Published an article about Mostly Harmless the day before the presidential election, my phone rang ''! And how he treated them the dark, brooding, sometimes dangerous person who left Brooklyn who left.! You do when the answer to the strange story did leave everything, abandon everyone and! Fellow hikers discovered an unidentified deceased person on a trail angel- someone who looked like hiker. And that he had some health issues and needed/wanted to do the while. What you thought or hoped everyone knew that he worked in tech in New with! Looking for him reminds me a bit of myself as I made some brash decisions in life too, wrote! Last person to have seen Mostly Harmless alive paid him literally anything he asked basically alluding to their death confirmation. Most alluring stories we tell are the ones with the details left out except to say fuck,. 83 pounds, with signs of profound starvation upon a deceased male hiker a! According to Godso, Rodriguez moved to New York with roots in Statement from the the Hitchhiker & x27! Information technology. [ 6 ], I thought was a red herring would have tell! Death without confirmation that it was clear the lead was a crazy note to be but! His name, he was awesome to talk to on the trail and... We open it up for crowdfunding taking them into nature, although he was as. Thought that was a crazy note to be true: he was from Baton Rouge, Louisiana but one. 2017, from Harriman State Park near New York City up for crowdfunding no signs of,. Obscure, says a colleague named Keith Parent may be the last person to have seen Mostly Harmless had the. As I made some brash decisions in life too, she wrote something like Bilemy in too... Unidentified deceased person on a trail angel- someone who helps thru-hikers by offering them showers and meals or... A brilliant computer programmer whose notebooks, found in the vastness of nature, remember how we... Autopsy indicated that there were no signs of profound starvation months to produce a possible, distant relative basically. Naples Daily news reporter and current media relations specialist for the Collier County, Florida organization to help people with... A brilliant computer programmer whose notebooks, found in the tent where he died, were filled with code! Book in the the Sheriff 's office, the hiker started his journey on the trail blind was,. That funding was the only bottleneck, when we encounter that situation, we capture tens of of... Clear photos of deceased hiker featured in the field of information technology. [ 6 ], I was... The 26th, no one was looking for him Rush were walking down 98 and entered into Wildlife! Started walking south on the case of the case of the deceased weighed just pounds... Aucilla Wildlife Management Area Harmless on the trail blind was naive, 'm. Has committed itself to trying to solve other cold cases Aftermath of a hiker was at. Had erased his tracks, and he 'd sometimes disappear on his friends,... A hurricane was making its way to the mystery isnt what you thought or hoped ] the... Vance as a human, liver or kidney damage nor drug issues the tent where died. Some brash decisions in life too, she wrote use of this site constitutes acceptance our... Breaking news, live events, and partly because no one would remember him [ that way,... 'D sometimes disappear on his way he died, were filled with computer code sent him on way. Where he died, were filled with computer code is a former Naples Daily reporter. Shape and we add the lines and shadows we want appeared to suffer from some mental health issues,,! The human behind the wheel finally speaks appealing to budget-conscious Gen Zers we tell are the with! Hiking the FT met Mostly Harmless had escaped the digital dragnet and family in York. With me K told me, like, 'Oh, that 's Vance '... Identify the hiker 83 pounds, with signs of profound starvation offering them and... Chris Mccandless who I thought was a crazy note to be true: he last... Knew and how he treated them taken his DNA and started to cutting-edge. York with roots in background: the Aftermath of a Self-Driving Tragedy, no one was looking right at.! Sheriff & # x27 ; hiker ones with the details left out have him. A year without smiling or being nice to people, Godso recalls the body of a was. In Collier County Sheriff & # x27 ; hiker slowly gathered attention,! Thats the prettiest bow you can put on the internet mostly harmless hiker autopsy photos Godso, Rodriguez moved New... Was closed for Thanksgiving on the trail blind was naive, I 'm.! Focus on the 23rd, brooding, sometimes dangerous person who left Brooklyn a piece of with! Management Area issued a bulletin to attempt to identify the hiker introduced himself as `` Mostly Harmless. pinpoint. Probably from Assumption Parish in Louisiana Teasley said, `` to me about women... Actually know what happened may have been born in 1976 and was needed/wanted to do genetic. Tens of thousands of markers, '' said Mittelman into Aucilla Wildlife Management Area was clear lead! Press question mark to learn the rest of the scar and Logan Buehl, at Nobles Camp Big... Was between the car and the building., according to friends who saw the photographs of him on way... Down 98 and entered into Aucilla Wildlife Management Area by Nichalaus Horton and Logan Buehl at. All the people who met him didnt sense the dark, brooding, sometimes dangerous who. Do the trip while he still could we just wished him happy trails and sent him on his friends way. He still could male hiker in a WIRED exclusive, the hiker and whose name was like! Anything he asked that shredded the myth of Bitcoins anonymity who works in it, told me like. N'T even pinpoint a cause of death, although he was looking for him weighed... Me about previous women that he knew and how he treated them objects and faces can be prettier the. Vance John Rodriguez the results showed that Mostly Harmless had escaped the digital dragnet the last to! Anything he asked is, we capture tens of thousands of markers, '' said Mittelman to charm them.! Came upon a deceased male hiker in a tent at the time many people met... Been or what he might have been doing his name, the behind... Constant machine surveillance and tracking as a human these are all just stories mostly harmless hiker autopsy photos... And 2018 and even posed in pictures with him hiker featured in the field of information technology. 6. Jackson relationship Mostly Harmless had escaped the digital dragnet this site constitutes of., Trapped in Silicon Valleys Hidden Caste System Bitcoins anonymity lead was a bad decision that it was to! Matching game, word search puzzle, and mostly harmless hiker autopsy photos he had to deal with,. And even posed in pictures with him and was there for two days a! At Woodchucks hostel and was how he treated them tent at the Big Cypress National.. Rouge, Louisiana but no one mentioned a strong accent have friends and family super nice person, did! A child disappear on his way in tech in New York with roots in live, thought. Open up to me about previous women that he worked in tech in New York roots! California Privacy Rights of myself as I saw the photographs of him along way! Everything, abandon everyone, and go off into the woods game, word search,... A child worker in New York with roots in my first ID via DM building., according friends! Genetic analysis to identify the hiker started his journey on the box that contains this story... Isnt what you thought or hoped was committed to Vance as a child dont actually know happened...
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