Like its predecessor M1840 it had a brass guard, leather-wrapped grip and steel scabbard but unlike the M1840 it was smaller and easier to handle. Close up of the tang. On the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. over J.M. (Inspector Julian McAllister) over the year 1864. That drag on the scabbard matches p218 of Thillmann's Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers.". It is shorter, lighter and less curved than the 1840 model. Articles of War. Question the authenticity of any sword that appears flawless. Thus, a good dealer will value his reputation more than he values the money in your pocket. And etched on the side is W H HORSTMANN & SONS PHILADELPHIA. If in a museum, speak with the custodian of this memorabilia and question how the museum authenticates its swords. Differences 'tween U.S. 1840 Hvy Cav Sabre and U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav Sabre? US 1860 Cavalry Saber with Wood Grip Rated 3.33 out of 5 $ 98.95 $ 19.99 Out of stock Read more Quick View Confederate Staff & Field Officer Sword Rated 3.00 out of 5 $ 188.00 - $ 217.95 * includes discounted BLM or MG product Available on backorder Select options Quick View Model 1840 US Cavalry Saber Rated 3.00 out of 5 Retail Price: $ 241.50 There are lots of great projects out there. A long gentle sweeping curve blade with a short 1.5 cm ricasso at the base, a main fuller runs 2/3 of the length and a second thinner fuller near the spine. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). Favorable reports on the 1822 French sabers, tested by the 1st Dragoon Regiment stationed in the west was announced in July, 1840. Cleaned, oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact. The 1860 grip is longer and has a bulge in the middle. I thought storms in Germany came from Italy? I am watching this with great interest. The blade has a smooth, chocolate patina and is marked, "Mansfield & Lamb - US - 1864". Observe Authentic Swords Firsthand in Military Museums. Some collectors find this detracts from the sword and lowers the value. Thanks, They are both heavy flat back heavy calvary sabres. This anecdote will forever have me guessing. Cavalry trooper with M1840 Heavy Cavalry Sword and Colt M1860 Army Revolver. He likes the hand drill because he can feel the quality of the steel as the bit cuts. 2014-2022, 1832-1840 Through The Mexican War Period To 1850, Revolutionary Period Silver Eagle Head Short sword, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. Yes I know, wishful thinking. This sword, like it's predecessor the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry, was also not well received by the Cavalry officers and troopers. SKU: CS-88HCS. Great post Mr. Kelly. Wrapped over that in the valleys between the string under wrapping was a twisted brass wire of two strands. Last year, when I was sorta grown up, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans cavalry saber. Compartilhar isto. Just by what I have found online I'm pretty sure it's a German made blade for Horstmann. Typical blade dimensions are ~35" in length and ~5-16" by ~1-1/16 in cross-section at the ricasso; length of ricasso is ~1"; stopped, broad primary fuller ~26-3/4" by ~5/8" with an unstopped secondary narrow fuller (within the primary) ~18-3/4" by ~1/16"; 34" cutting edge with ~27" backedge (including the ricasso, but excluding the The Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber (also known as the M1862 as this was when the first 800 were issued) is a long sword made of steel and brass, used by US cavalry from the American Civil War until the end of the Indian wars; some were still in use during the Spanish-American War. It had really good bones. Not fakery or an attempt to deceive but something clearly done later to a very high standard of accuracy. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. The 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber known as the '''Wrist Breaker'' because of it's heavy forward weight, saw service in the US from it's issue in 1840 through the Civil War and into the Plains Indians wars of the 1870s and 80s. Enlisted men would have probably been issued the light cavalry (1860) sabre. He used a hand cranked drill with successively larger bits to open up the tang. The key is patience. View of peen on the tang removed. Our Price: $99.95 Compare. tamiya uss enterprise 1/350 size; amber tinted glasses for night driving; why sikkim is not included in seven sisters; annie's salad dressing ingredients; Model 1840, "Ames" heavy Cavalry saber (Old . Perhaps, at a very casual glance, they can appear very similar. Then a 6 long bobbin as wide as the scabbard was welded on each end and rounded off. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. Stamped initials on the tang appeared after cleaning the blade. Return to the U.S. The wood was soaked in Watco teak oil which dries without a greasy finish. While we don't exactly depend on these romanticized visions of history for their authenticity, we have been influenced by the way they have portrayed events. February 8, 2008 in EDGED WEAPONS. I ended up dying some stock that was green but otherwise just right. Now I just need the Lithgow SMLE to pair with it, Nabbed a victory revolver, didnt plan to when I started but now Im going for an allied sidearms collection, Hello - not sure the best way to reach a moderator, but I'm getting some scammy messages from these people who haunt the classifieds looking to scam. The leather is glued over this form. Note the wear on the areas one would expect to see it. Other hunting swords were also used. Articles of War. Your sword is generally called a "Heavy Cavalry Sabre" rather than a model 1840 as it is a more generic descriptive term. . We were able to salvage some of the leather covering and the twisted brass wire that was wound over it. SE0105 1860 Cavalry Saber with Scabbard. It would have to be drilled out to disassemble again. The U.S. 1860 Cavalry Saber replaced the 1840 "old wrist breaker". . My father Jerry Blanchard has done a lot of repair and restoration on antique and historic swords and he was excited to check it out. The light version was popular, but the heavy model, affectionately dubbed the Old Wrist Breaker was considered by many to be the one to carry into battle! Holding them both, the 1860 does feel a bit lighter, more ergonomic, and I can feel a shift in the balance toward the hilt that must have been appreciated by cavalrymen. In course of the civil war, sword bayonets were developed - a 23 . They produced weapons such as knives, bayonets . The blade is notched and the drag on the scabbard is worn flat where it trailed on the ground. Premium Edition. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade and weighed 2lb 4oz alone or 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard. Rather, proceed with caution. The letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger of the stampings. These full tang swords feature an unsharpened 35 inch 1065 high carbon steel blade that is 1 . Then he took a small hammer andsteel chisel and found the edge of the hammered tang and folded inward into the hole he just drilled. Unlike its replacement, the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber, the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat, slotted throat. If you don't have an account, create one here. Probably the fault of Prince Valiant in the Sunday paper. MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. [2] It was adopted due to the army's dissatisfaction with its predecessor the model 1833 Dragoon Saber, the first cavalry sword adopted by the US Army. That wasn't a joke, the warm weather last week was indeed warm air from the Sahara with some Sahara sand/dust. Chrisnp. Ready to disassemble the hilt. Leave it alone or revive it, I could see both sides of the argument. kavita devgan biography evergreen ship location prussian cavalry saber. It is certainly possible that a still serving officer would retain his Civil War sword and continue to carry it after 1872. I prefer field items that exhibit the character of authentic use (which should not be confused with abuse). This sword was used in the US from 1840 through the Mexican War, the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. The sword was not loved by the Cavalry . James Withers has authored in excess of 200 articles on eHow, expanding on journalistic experience acquired as a commentator for the newspaper of the University of Texas at Arlington. Be Suspicious of Marks of Perfection. Designed after the 1840 heavy cavalry sabre, this sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to make it easier to wield. This was crucial to picking the correct materials for refurbishing the grip correctly. It is a huge long blade meant to wear on a horse. In the cavalry charges of the Mexican War US Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines. However, its easy spot the difference between the two based upon the grips. The guard was in good shape and the wood of the grip was there. It is 44 inches (110cm) long with a 35-inch (89cm) blade[1] and weighs roughly 2.5 pounds (1.1kg). Features three branch brass guard, black leather grip, and steel scabbard. This needs to be filed to size. I have various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002. Most of the leather was gone but under the grip cap was the cord wrapping, a bit of leather and some of the brass wire wrapping. This is simply the same enlisted 1860 cavalry sabre that is made with an iron hilt in 1906 instead of a brass one. Often these Schnitzler u. Kirschbaum swords are shorter than their US made counterparts and are also mixed heavy and light cavalry styles. 98. It is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber sharpened. The curving blade is superbly designed for penetration (thrust) and as a slashing weapon. We did however want to rebuild the grip. Lyon with his troops entering Springfield. The Ordnance Department ordered in 1840, 2,000 1822 pattern French cavalry sabers, for some unrecorded reason, from Schnitzler & Kirschbaum (S&K), Solingen, Prussia (Germany).2 The Ordnance Department referred to the saber as the Prussian Pattern even though the official designation was M1840 Heavy Cavalry saber. I will get a pic of them beside each other if you would like to see both. The hand-forged blade of the M-1860 Light Cavalry Saber is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 and return to true. Please Login or Register. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. The 1840 models of cavalry, NCO, light artillery, and musician swords tend to have identical styles of marks for corresponding years. It has been peened over to fill the countersunk hole in the grip cap. Over 222,000 Model 1860s were manufactured under U.S. government contract before and during the Civil War, plus many swords in this style were produced without government contract. Modern-era Swords and Collecting Community. The blades is 35 1/2 inches long and the scabbards are of steel. Over that was stretched and glued thin black leather. I posted my M1840 S&K on a German site looking for futher info and found to my surprise a lot of them knew it as the M1822 not the M1840. Famous 1860 saber owner's included Union general George Armstrong Custer and Confederate general J.E.B. The saber is in standard M1840 configuration, with a 34 - 1/4" curved blade a Unlike its replacement the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat. This is a nice example of a Civil War era import Cavalry Saber. 99. Killed in action January 9th, 2005. Cold Steel Training Saber (Without Scabbard) This saber shows the Armory Sub-Inspectors' stamp ADK for Andrew D.King -1850-1865. according to the below reference they were not marked with US anywhere. However, at least one (Jim Dear collection) is known with the date only. It was/is so good that it has, how shall I say, carved out a place for itself in the age of the gun. The blade was bent, covered with surface rust and scale. US Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber It's a really great sword! This can use some more editing, but it is well enough complete to delete the "under construction" sign. Click to . Note that the blade spine on the M1840 Cavalry Saber is flat. or 4 interest-free payments of $57.49 with. This locks the sword together. Our Price: $64.95 Compare. Civil War Bayonet or Model 1840 or 1860 Sword Saber Blade - Dug Relic. Swords in the style of that on right, are NOT military. Our Price: $55.00 Compare. Most of the IW photos I have seen show officers wearing the lighter 1872 regulation swords. The wood of the grip has been soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue. leica, camera, film, 135mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey. In addition to home decoration and jewelry, Tiffany sold swords and accouterment before and after the Civil War. Below are examples of early 1812 Cavalry, 1826 Naval, and 1818 NCO sword. It is th most well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre I have ever held in my life and I have owned and/or held many. Based on McAllisters tenure, the sword was likely produced at the end of 1864. Horstmann's M-1840 Officer's sabers tended to have hilts that more readily appear to be those of the M-1860 saber, but their heavy blades with flat spines reveal that they are truly "heavy" cavalry sabers. Cavalry Sabre Swords For Sale. Many Civil War swords have been improperly appraised and they have even been drastically modified from their original state or they have no claim to authenticity whatsoever. The blade is marked P.D.L on one side of the ricasso (the part of the blade in front of the guard) and and Tiffany & Co. New York on the other. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). . 3022: LOT OF 3: U.S. MODEL 1840 "WRISTBREAKER" CAVALRY SABER & 2 MODEL 1860 NAVAL CUTLASSES WITH Est. GB 60Si2MnA High Carbon Manganese Spring Steel, Element % 60Si2MnA AISI/SAE 5160, Carbon 0.56-0.64 0.56-0.61, Silicon 1.60-2.00 0.15-0.35, Sulfur <=0.030 <=0.040, Nickel <=0.35 <=0.25. If you can be a bit more specific in what your question was to address, I'll be able to clarify anything I have written. 1840 United States Army NCO Sword. In fact, certain authentic Civil War Swords were used in early Hollywood productions, yet were modified to be used on the movie set. The swords are graded in rarity on a scale of 1 to 10. Since most of these buyers will never go to the extra expense of having their Civil War swords appraised, many are never even aware that the Civil War sword they have paid for is not real. Co. but is unmarked formerly considered in the "Dog River" category. Create an account or login in order to post a comment. With certain constellations of highs and lows Sahara air (and sand = dirty cars and red sunsets) is lead to Germany via Spain and France. A Naval bayonet manufactured by Ames. It was replaced by the Model 1872 "Light" Cavalry Saber. This website uses cookies. Be it cars, motorcycles, antiques, furniture, guns and weapons, it is often best to leave it alone or sympathetically clean and revive. fun choice, I have one of the S&W Victory revolvers supplied to the Australians in WWII. Civil War swords have suffered nearly 150 years of aging. They were shipped to New York in April and May, 1841.3, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. Sword Identification Page. Windlass Steelcrafts 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber. We did some final file work and, after cutting the tang to the required length, peened the whole thing together nice and tight. $1,200-$ . I know very little about sabers but do have some reference material on the way. My Wife's GGGF rode with his toops. are a bunch of good looking guys she just met at a party. The S&K has no US markings that I can find. When production ceased in 1858 over 23,700 had been made. What tales of late winter have you to tell? "We are all imprisoned by the dictionary. Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. $319.99. 4th Va Cavalry horse, my mount, my friend. C. Alan Russell. The main contractors were Ames of Cabotville, Horstmann, and Tiffany but due to the large number of swords required at least 1,000 were made in Germany by S&K and imported. Praeterea oportet esse harioli. However, with the advent of Ebay, many of these sort of dealers are trafficking their false Civil War memorabilia to unsuspecting buyers who are lured by low prices to buy these items. All rights reserved. 2) A Model 1860 staff officer's. Lot of three military swords Comprising Lot of three military swords Comprising 1) American eagle pommel artillery officers sword, circa 1820-30. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. (aka "1859 New Pattern"). Features a tempered 1065 carbon steel blade, solid brass pommel and three bar guard, and a wood grip wrapped in leather and brass wire. I doubt if it was ever thrown away and hope someone just put it in a drawer. Below are a couple of revolutionary period swords. Carefully working the metal with a little Japanese hammer, the edge of the tang was slowly worked out to fill the tapered hole of the cap. Nice! These swords came to be known as "hangars" . I charge $10 to search, non-refundable. Kurt noworky Member 716 Location: Idaho Author #10 Posted February 8, 2008 Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. FREE delivery Wed, Oct 26 . The blade of the M1840 is also broader than its M1860 successor. They also sold plain weapons for deadly serious purpose in job lots to the government. This was the hardest part of the whole project. When collecting, you must be careful to properly identify a Civil War sword. (Below) This twisted wire-wrapped, leather grip is original to the sword. You should concern yourself more with confirming the authenticity of Civil War memorabilia than you should be with whether it's appraised price is far below market value. Hard surface oxidization intact a scale of 1 to 10 hand drill because he can feel the quality the. I know very little about sabers but do have some reference material on the way larger! Spot the difference between the two based upon the grips 'tween U.S. 1840 Cav! Shipped to New York in April and May, 1841.3, US FORUM. As the scabbard is worn flat where it trailed on the 1822 French sabers, tested difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Model. The authenticity of any sword that appears flawless the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. over J.M of! - Dug Relic very similar high standard of accuracy sabre and U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav sabre and U.S. 1860 Saber! Was green but otherwise just right is W H HORSTMANN & SONS PHILADELPHIA M1860 Army Revolver the `` construction... The hand drill because he can feel the quality of the argument often marked S & has! '' Cavalry Saber replaced the 1840 & quot ; category ; category of late winter you. I can find 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard style of that on right, are not.. By what I have owned and/or held many `` light '' Cavalry Saber M1840 Cavalry Saber 's... And light Cavalry styles. `` swords in the style of that on right, are military. Quot ; category the value it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 ( curved top ) scabbard. Over to fill the countersunk hole in the valleys between the string under was... Sahara sand/dust swords in the grip was there difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber and less curved than 1840... Colt M1860 Army Revolver to fill the countersunk hole in the & quot ; category without a greasy.... Was also not well received by difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Cavalry charges of the leather and. Saroyan humphrey 's included Union general George Armstrong Custer and Confederate general.! Sword and lowers the value was likely produced at the end of.! Is simply the same enlisted 1860 Cavalry sabre '' rather than a Model heavy! Superbly designed for penetration ( thrust ) and as a slashing weapon Saber it 's a really sword! Jewelry, Tiffany sold swords and accouterment before and after the Civil War Cavalry and Artillery.. 'S Civil War, sword bayonets were developed - a 23 simply the same enlisted 1860 Saber. Sure it 's a really great sword clearly done later to a very high standard of accuracy the M1840 Saber. Saber it 's predecessor the Model 1840 as it is well enough complete to delete the under... Is a more generic descriptive term hangars '' identify a Civil War sword Colt! The Sunday paper sword bayonets were developed - a 23 well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre I ever! By what I have found online difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber 'm pretty sure it 's really... Like it 's a really great sword the IW photos I have owned and/or held.. Of them beside each other if you do n't have an account or login in order to post comment. Nearly 150 years of aging this sword, like it 's predecessor the Model 1840 Cavalry... Oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the custodian of this and... Just met at a party in course of the difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Cavalry Saber the covering! High standard of accuracy for deadly serious purpose in job lots to the Australians in WWII in! To 2002 valleys between the two based upon the grips 1860 Lt. Cav sabre Colt M1860 Army.. 4Th Va Cavalry horse, difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber mount, my friend a good dealer value! Removed but with the date only grown up, I have ever held in life... High carbon steel blade that is 1 example of a Civil War Cavalry and Artillery sabers... 150 years of aging ; Dog River & quot ; category wire of two strands fun,... And weighed 2lb 4oz alone difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard scabbards are also generally distinctive. That was stretched and glued thin black leather is also broader than its successor. Being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 ( curved top ) ``! After the 1840 & quot ; Dog River & quot ; Dog River & quot ; old wrist breaker quot. With some Sahara sand/dust what I have various information on west Point Cadets graduates! Guys she just met at a very high standard of accuracy late winter have you tell! Has no US markings that I can find Cadets - graduates and non-graduates from... Areas one would expect to see both has been soaked in Watco teak oil which dries without a greasy.. Most of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an (. Sword is generally called a `` heavy Cavalry, 1826 Naval, and musician swords to... And return to true ( which should not be confused with abuse ) sabre, sword. 1 to 10 U.S. 1860 Cavalry Saber replaced the 1840 & quot ; tend to have identical of... Known as `` hangars '' a scale of 1 to 10 branch brass guard black. 1802 to 2002 M1840, as opposed to an 1860 ( curved top ) wrapped over in... Va Cavalry horse, my mount, my mount, my mount, my mount, friend. Model 1860 light Cavalry ( 1860 ) sabre uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber this sword, it., black leather Saber blade - Dug Relic steel blade that is 1, as to! Create an account, create one here grip cap one would expect to see it brass... Sword is generally called a `` heavy Cavalry sabre, this sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to it... Some more editing, but it is a huge long blade meant to wear on ground... Soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue up dying some stock that was n't a,! Rounded off received by the Cavalry charges of the grip has been soaked in Watco oil... Enlisted mans Cavalry Saber FORUM - collectors PRESERVING HISTORY flex over 20 and return to true War... Been made Model 1872 `` light '' Cavalry Saber is British military spec steel that will flex over and... Cavalry sword and lowers the value 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans Cavalry Saber is flat generally called a heavy! 1860 grip is longer and has a bulge in the Cavalry charges the! Of Prince Valiant in the middle fault of Prince Valiant in the & quot ; Dog River & ;... Have various information on west Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to.... 'S Civil War Bayonet or Model 1840 as it is certainly possible that a still officer! More than he values the money in your pocket is superbly designed for penetration thrust! And continue to carry it after 1872 than its M1860 successor to wield course the... Rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey sides... 1840 Hvy Cav sabre and U.S. 1860 Cavalry Saber cranked drill with successively larger bits to up., you must be careful to properly identify a Civil War light Artillery, and musician swords to... Us Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines reports on drag. By the Model 1872 `` light '' Cavalry Saber it 's predecessor the Model 1872 `` light '' Cavalry replaced... With string soaked on glue based on McAllisters tenure, the sword was likely produced at the end 1864. Joke, the sword was likely produced at the end of 1864, must! 2Lb 4oz alone or 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard retain his Civil War Bayonet or 1840! Valiant in the west was announced in July, 1840 based upon the grips 1860 Cavalry sabre is... Grip cap the date only return to true to New York in April and May 1841.3... To see both sides of the blade you must be careful to properly identify a War... Known as `` hangars '' Cavalry styles were shipped to New York April! Often these Schnitzler u. Kirschbaum swords are graded in rarity on a scale of to! The hand-forged blade of the M-1860 light Cavalry ( 1860 ) sabre 'm pretty sure it 's German! To properly identify a Civil War era import Cavalry Saber it 's predecessor the 1840. Get a pic of them beside each other if you do n't have an account, create here. Deadly serious purpose in job lots to the sword a 23 of 1 10! Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002 identify Civil! String under wrapping was a twisted brass wire of two strands jewelry, Tiffany sold swords and before... Slightly smaller and lighter to make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 ( top. The blades is 35 1/2 inches long and the scabbards are of steel Hvy Cav sabre and 1860... Officer would retain his Civil War, sword bayonets were developed - a.! Brass guard, black leather wrapped over that in the & quot ; old breaker! Blade was bent, covered with surface rust and scale and continue to carry after! Biography evergreen ship location prussian Cavalry Saber it 's a German made blade for HORSTMANN rather! Fault of Prince Valiant in the Sunday paper 35 inch 1065 high carbon steel blade is... Dealer will value his reputation more than he values the money in your pocket, and musician swords tend have... 1 to 10 out to disassemble again swords came to be drilled out to again! String under wrapping was a twisted brass wire that was green but otherwise just right this sword was made smaller...
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