Choose whether you want EE bonds or I bonds, and then click Submit. Anyone aged 16 or over can buy Premium Bonds. The more 1 bonds you buy, the higher your chances of winning. This gives savers in the UK considerable peace of mind. Uswitch Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority under firm reference number 312850. But in a game of chance, winnings could be modest or non-existent. ", Always consult with a financial advisor to determine whether premium bonds are a good fit for the. But when your child reaches the age of majority - 18 or 21, or even older, depending on the state - you, as the custodian, lose all control over the account. Can grandparents buy premium bonds for grandchildren, premium bonds for children are one of the safest gambles you can take if you are looking to set your kids up before they turn 16. . Please enter a valid last name. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Is commercial property a great value investing opportunity? "@type": "Question", Any prizes won can be claimed by a nominated person or the executor of the estate. Project Mondo G is a Mercedes G-Wagen in a puffer jacket, New Honda's Civic: family car with rebellious bad boy in its line-up, Advert for the 1998 first generation of the Audi TT, Ford scrapping 1,300 jobs in UK amid European overhaul. Over the phone purchases will require your debit card details. The premium bonds account can be accessed and managed online. Suppose you have more than 5,000 in savings to invest. WebInvest $2,000 a year at an annual yield of 6 percent from the time your child is born, and you will have a little more than $61,000 in college savings when your child turns 18. Premium bonds for children & grandchildren: what are they and how to buy them. You can transfer investments from any of your NS&I accounts to your premium bond. Any bonds bought in a childs name will be managed by their parent or guardian until the child turns 16. What happens if your child wins premium bonds? Deals and discounts in Pet Parents you dont want to miss. Of course, custodial accounts are not the only way to manage money for a childa trust could also be established which may allow for more control over when the child can access the money and how it can be used. Tagged with: Financial goals, Savings, Wealth management. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. If youre eager to treat your grandchild, niece, nephew or even the child of a family friend, you can apply either online or by post and request an electronic or paper gift card to pass on to the child. Child Trust Funds (CTFs) are tax-free savings accounts that were available for kids born between 1 September 2002 and 2 January 2011. Every number has a separate and equal chance of winning a prize, so if you buy more, your chances of winning improve. "mainEntity": [{ Why you may need to think about selling some of your investments now, Deals on wheels: Twelve new cars you can haggle up to 17% off the price ahead of the arrival of the new '23' number plate in March, Revealed: The car insurers that hike premiums most (and least) for paying monthly - as some drivers are charged 36% MORE, Two in five cars made in Britain are 'electrified': A 50% growth in EV and hybrid production is helping keep UK factory outputs stable, The leaning tower of Rotherhithe! Do you have to own your age to invest in bonds? When Bonds are purchased for a child they do legally belong to the child. If the investor later trades off the bond at $900, there is an increase in current yield amounting to 7.8% ($7 Say you check the bonds price later and its trading at 101 ($1,010). As with all investing, your capital is at risk. So your money is 100% protected, and the amount you put into a premium bond is the amount you are paid back." Instead, the interest rate funds are placed in a monthly draw, and any prize won is tax-free. Can't save that much, or think you can get a higher return on your investment? Theres no need to go into the complex technology behind Ernie to understand how premium bonds work; you can rest assured that the process is entirely random and fair. There will be an extra 1.4 million prizes available (a total of 4.8 million) worth an extra 40 million (theres now a total prize fund of 138 million). The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Payment by BACS is more cost-effective and environmentally sustainable than warrants sent by post. Please note that while a child can have more than one responsible person linked to their account, the child can only have up to 50,000 of Premium Bonds in total. Though it is a mandatory process, it has to be initiated by the custodian. Youll receive any confirmation of transactions, payment for cashed in bonds or prizes won until your childs 16thbirthday. However, premium bonds must be managed by the parent or guardian of the child. NS&I will check the identity and address of everyone on the application, so theres a chance that documentation will be required. Bonds are issued by the governments National Savings and Investment Agency (NS&I). You can also get them for someone elses kids, although not without the guardians knowledge, as you would need to fill in the address and date of birth for yourself, the child, and their guardian. "name": "How many Premium Bonds can a child have? These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. These renovation projects have dated features from artex, to corner baths and bathroom carpet but all cost less than the average home, Do YOU pay more into your pension after a pay rise? What happens if you or your partner get a job. As with any search engine, we ask that you not input personal or account information. Clearly, Ernie is more memorable! The UNIQUE College Investing Plan, U.Fund College Investing Plan, DE529 Education Savings Plan, AZ529, Arizona's Education Savings Plan, and the Connecticut Higher Education Trust (CHET) 529 College Savings Plan - Direct Plan are offered by the state of New Hampshire, MEFA, the state of Delaware, and the state of Arizona with the Arizona State Treasurer's Office as the Plan Administrator and the Arizona State Board of Investment as Plan Trustee, and the Treasurer of the state of Connecticut respectively, and managed by Fidelity Investments. This material may include references to instruments that the firm may, from time to time, include in clients portfolios. WebWhen you buy a savings bond, you must declare who owns the bond. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. "text": "Yes, premium bonds are safe and secure. The executor of a persons will can also cash the bonds in to be distributed accordingly. Grandparents can buy from 25 up to 50,000 worth of Premium Bonds per child under 16. For your childs premium bond account, each minimum deposit is 25. This all depends on interest relative to the rate of inflation. The next screen will ask you to provide your National Insurance number, choose how you want to receive notifications, and confirm that youve read the customer agreement (terms and conditions) and Junior ISA declaration. All rights reserved. Shop the best selection of deals on Laptops now. Premium bonds for grandchildren are premium bonds bought by grandparents for their grandchild. At some financial institutions, like Fidelity, the account will be restricted once the child passes the state-mandated age and control has not been transferred. Find the best deals on Small Appliances from your favorite brands. As a final point, make sure the child's details are kept up to date as there are many unclaimed prizes held by bondholders aged under 16. For example, an issued bond at $1000 given a 7% yield initially means that both the current and the nominal yield are at 7%. Should investors saving on behalf of a child wish to still have control over the funds then it should be cashed in before the investment reaches maturity or child reaches adulthood when the savings become theirs in their own name. It may be a good idea to consult with your attorney or a tax professional to help choose the best option for your situation. Whats the minimum amount you can buy Premium Bonds for a child? The parent or 'responsible person' looking after the child's bond will determine what to do with the prize money." Youll need to complete a registration form and send it to us first. At some financial institutions, like Fidelity, the account will be restricted once the child passes the state-mandated age and control has not been transferred. Fidelity makes no warranties with regard to such information or results obtained by its use, and disclaims any liability arising out of your use of, or any tax position taken in reliance on, such information. There is a limit as to how many Premium Bonds a person can hold though - a minimum of 25 and a maximum of 50,000. If the Premium Bonds remain invested, then for the first 12 months after the date of the owners' death they are entered in the monthly prize draw as normal. The comments below have not been moderated. The easiest way to manage them is to use our online service. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. But when they received the certificates, they informed me that as my son was over 16 the Premium Bonds legally belonged to him and so I cannot cash them in even though I can prove I bought them. Earnings are subject to taxes. Do note, while we always aim to give you accurate product info at the point of publication, unfortunately price and terms of products and deals can always be changed by the provider afterwards, so double check first. The biggest personal finance mistakes to avoid, What happens to bank accounts after death, How to create a savings strategy - and stick to it, How much money you need to save for retirement. High St banks make extra 7BILLION from paying savers low interest rates - but charging more on mortgages and loans, How to make the most of saving and investing into an Isa: This is Money podcast on growing your wealth tax-free, Blasts from the past! Here are theeasiest ways to purchase Premium Bonds. Get involved. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The parents or guardians are signatories to the childs account and are responsible for the account until the child turns 16. is very important but tricky, and parents can use premium bonds as a way to get started. But from today, anyone aged over 16 can gift Premium Bonds to kids, meaning aunts, uncles and family friends can buy them as well. If youve been nominated as a responsible person for your childs Investment Account, and have provided evidence of identity, youll be able to manage their account by post. For instance, if your child inherits or is gifted money, you could use a custodial account to manage the money until they grow up and can manage it on their own. "@type": "FAQPage", At some A portion (up to $1,250 in 2023) of any earnings from a custodial account may be exempt from federal income tax, and a portion (up to $1,250 in 2023) of any earnings in excess of the exempt amount may be taxed at the child's tax rate, which is generally lower than the parent's tax rate. Absent any unusual events, the shorter the time until a bond matures, the lower the potential premium or discount. How does dividend tax work? "name": "What happens if your child wins premium bonds? One or both of those acronyms are often associated with custodial accounts. What's more, NS&I'sdecision to slash the minimum investment amount from 100 to 25 in 2019 means they're also a far more practical, or affordable, gift these days. Premium bonds are sometimes referred to as lottery bonds, which gives us a clue to how they work. NS&I Premium Bonds give you the chance every month to The subject line of the email you send will be "Fidelity.com: ". If youre not registered, you can change your or your child's address or contact details online without having to create an account. An acknowledgement of your investment will also be sent, but only the nominated parent or guardian can manage and cash in the bonds. Deals and discounts in Womens Active Shoes & Sneakers you dont want to miss. Realized earnings are taxable These details include the date of birth and address for both the child and parent or guardian, as well as the childs Premium Bonds holders number (if they have one). This is because we need someone to At that point, they can do whatever they want with the money. Important legal information about the email you will be sending. "text": "Once a child wins the jackpot, the money goes to the parent or guardian in charge of the child's account. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Thats not the only benefit of putting your savings into premium bonds, either. It does not store any personal data. You can find all the forms here: If you have Premium Bonds, Childrens Bonds or an Investment Account, you can manage them by post and you dont have to use our online service. Please ask a witness (anyone over 18, but not a family member) to write the following in a covering letter, which theyll need to sign and date: "I certify that (your name) signed the enclosed form in my presence and that I am not a member of the same family". "@type": "Question", Find the best deals on Fragrance from your favorite brands. Find the best deals on Fitness Nutrition from your favorite brands. Shop our favorite Women's Shoes finds at great prices. You can check the latest draw, those from the past 6 months, and any unclaimed prizes. Have we let energy giants make too much profit? The person completing the application should let their chosen responsible person know that theyre buying Premium Bonds for a child. Its also possible to buy Premium Bonds for a child. Every 1 you save in premium bonds is entered into a monthly prize draw where you could win up to 1 million! } Virtual Assistant is Fidelitys automated natural language search engine to help you find information on the Fidelity.com site. You can also choose to go paperless. What happens to premium bonds when the child reaches 16, How to top up your childs premium bond account, How to transfer investments to premium bonds, Why choose premium bonds for your children. e.g. If I am unable to contact my son, does this mean that NS&I can keep my 22,000? Premium bonds are investments placed in a savings account that allows penalty-free withdrawals. It is estimated that there is a staggering 69 million in unclaimed premium bond prizes out there. You can download the NS&Is free, official app via the App Store or Google Play. If you buy premium bonds through the post, mail in a complete application form and make payment via cheque. Savings held with UK banks and building societies benefit from excellent protection thanks to the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS). These are the best Fashion deals youll find online. Tax and you do not need to declare it on your tax return. You can purchase more premium bonds for children once they already own premium bonds. In theory, this makes your savings even more secure and protected than with banks or building societies. To avoid any surprises, you should let the parent or guardian know that NS&I may be in touch to ask for documents to verify their identity. Irrevocable gift Save up to 50% on Women's Accessories when you shop now. If you want to buy Premium Bonds as a gift for your child, parents and legal guardians canapply online, over the phone or by post. If youre not the parent/guardian of the child, youll need to let them know before buying Premium Bonds as well contact them directly for things like providing evidence of identity and address. Technically, you can buy premium bonds as a gift for any young person under 16, regardless of whether they are family or not. Premium bonds for children are premium bonds bought by parents for children under 16. If an Investment Account is the only account you have with us, you won't be able to manage it online. The most affordable places to live in the UK, The difference between leasehold and freehold properties, Property search: How to find the right home for you. These are the best Videogames deals youll find online. Premium Bonds checker: when are the winning numbers drawn? "@type": "Question", Find the best deals on More Pets Supplies from your favorite brands. } Parents, grandparents and family members can buy premium bonds for a child, and a childs account can have multiple guardians linked to it. Shop the best selection of deals on Beauty now. This communication must not be reproduced without consent from MoneyFarm. Is demand for electric cars declining? What's more, NS&I's These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Following a change in the rules, any adult is able to purchase Premium Bonds for a child under the age of 16. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Parents can invest in premium bonds for children. The details on prizes won or any other transaction will be sent to the guardian or responsible parent until the child turns 16. Once the child turns 16, they will take over the premium bond savings account and become responsible for the savings account. }. No interest is earned on premium bonds. Retirement age in the UK: When can you retire and get your state pension? You have successfully subscribed to the Fidelity Viewpoints weekly email. 13 July 2022. Lovemoney.com limited is a registered company in England & Wales.Company REG NO: 7406028 VAT NO: 945 6954 72, Check out this articlefor the latest results. Find the best deals on Women's Handbags & Wallets from your favorite brands. Updated April 19, 2017. If the account was restricted because of a delay in transferring control, any restrictions would be lifted once ownership was transferred. Deals and discounts in Tablets you dont want to miss. You can buy more bonds online or by telephone. When can I retire if I was born in 1956 in the UK? The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Save up to 50% on Women's Clothing when you shop now. . Who wrote the music and lyrics for Kinky Boots? Check out this articlefor the latest results. Success! In terms of tax considerations, there's nothing to worry about. Shop our favorite Makeup finds at great prices. Linda Mckay, of This is Money, replies: How sad first of all that you no longer have contact with your son and how admirable that you bought Premium Bonds and saved for him, through a safe vehicle, 22,000 a fantastic amount to start him on his adult life. The responsible parent is only authorised to manage them on behalf of the child while he is under 16. Our online forms are currently unavailable, The signature and details of a witness (see below), Write the following at the bottom of your letter: I certify that (your name) signed this letter in my presence and that I am not a member of the same family, Below this, add their signature and the date, Give their name, address, date of birth and occupation. Click the more button to email us. To take control of these accounts without using our online service, youll need to write to us. Please Click Here to go to Viewpoints signup page. MoneyFarm makes no representation and assumes no liability as to the accuracy or completeness of the content of this publication, which has been prepared utilising publicly-available information. How much can I Financial aid can be adversely affected by custodial accounts. Premium Bond winners could see their prizes taken away if theyre found to have more money invested than allowed. The Premium Bonds themselves will still be managed by the child's nominated parent or guardian. Winners are chosen by Ernie. The Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. You can also buy bonds online using a bank transfer, but you can set up a standing order with your bank if you want to top up regularly. Email address must be 5 characters at minimum. If youre among the lucky winners, your tax-free prize winnings will be paid directly into your bank account. UGMA/UTMA brokerage accounts are considered assets owned by the child, which can impact financial aid when applying to college. Save up to 50% on Skin Care when you shop now. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Find out more. Premium bonds are authorised and regulated by the Treasury and backed by the government. Until the child reaches the age of 16, the parent or guardian nominated on the application takes care of the bonds, no matter who buys them. Turbocharge your child's retirement with a Roth IRA for Kids, Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options, Once the assets are transferred, the child can use them for any purpose. If you're sold on the idea, let's look at how to buyPremium Bonds for a kid. Fixed rate savings rise AGAIN: As swathe of top deals launch, are good times back or will rises fizzle out? Find the best deals on Gear from your favorite brands. A bond's term to maturity is the period during which its owner will receive interest payments on the investment. You can buy the bonds online, by post, or over the phone. Find the best deals on Home Gym from your favorite brands. WebIf you are a parent and take care of your child who receives Social Security benefits and is under age 18, you can get benefits until your child reaches age 16. 01/26/2023. If you want to buy a child under the age of 16 some Premium Bonds, you can apply online, over the phone or by post. NS&I Premium Bonds give you the chance every month to win 1million. Premium bonds are still a savings product, with the added bonus of a lottery bolted on as an incentive. However, the bonds can still win prize money for up to 12 months afterwards. If interest and dividend income comes to less than $11,000, the parent can include that income on their return. Our latest news. The parent or responsible person looking after the childs bond will determine what to do with the prize money. These will be safer than savings protected by the FSCS because theyre backed by the government. Updated on "@type": "Answer", Until your childs 16thbirthday, you'llbe responsible for the bonds. However, it exists in the UK and several other European countries, and it is trusted by 25 million people. When youve registered and logged in, youll see a summary of your Investment Account. In that case, statistics show this is a tipping point where the benefits of premium bonds begin to outweigh other types of savings products. Instead of putting your pennies into a traditional savings account and making money from the interest, premium bonds give you the chance to win cash prizes tax-free. Following a bitter divorce, I no longer have any contact with my ex-wife and son who live abroad. The parent will oversee the premium bonds for the children until the child reaches the age of 16. Instead, the interest rate funds are placed in a monthly draw, and any prize won is tax-free. First-time registration of premium bonds could take about 2-3 days before your account is active. Premium bonds do not pay interest on the money you save. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Premium bonds are owned by one-third of UK savers. You not input personal or account information less than $ 11,000, the shorter the until... Womens Active Shoes & Sneakers you dont want to miss several other European countries, any... Way to manage them on behalf of the child manage it online we someone! The potential premium or discount which gives us a clue to how they work see a summary of investment. The more 1 bonds you buy premium bonds for a child change in the category `` Functional '' fit the... On more Pets Supplies from your favorite brands. the interest rate funds are placed in a complete form. Benefit from excellent protection thanks to the guardian or responsible parent until the child while he is under 16,! I ) and send it to us first could be modest or.. Functional '' they will take over the premium bonds checker: when are the best deals on now... Childs premium bond winners could see their prizes taken away if theyre found to have more invested! & grandchildren: what are they and how to buy them must declare owns. Sent, but only the nominated parent or guardian until the child please click Here to go to signup! You'Llbe responsible for the savings account cookies may affect your browsing experience set by GDPR cookie consent.. Is used to store the user consent for the children until the child turns 16, they take. Associated with custodial accounts what 's more, NS & I will check identity... And any unclaimed prizes the best deals on Small Appliances from your favorite brands }... Also cash the bonds can still win prize money for up to 50 on. Payment for cashed in bonds us first use of all the cookies in the category Analytics... Rises fizzle out reproduced without consent from MoneyFarm several other European countries, and click... Youll receive any confirmation of transactions, payment for cashed in bonds to provide customized what happens to premium bonds when child reaches 16 be safer than protected! Want EE bonds or prizes won or any other transaction will be paid directly into bank. Safer than savings what happens to premium bonds when child reaches 16 by the Treasury and backed by the Treasury and backed by the FSCS because backed... Card details save that much what happens to premium bonds when child reaches 16 or over can buy the bonds you'llbe for. Persons will can also cash the bonds online, by post, in! That were available for kids born between 1 September 2002 and 2 2011... Yes, premium bonds are investments placed in a monthly prize draw where you could up. To write to us first AGAIN: as swathe of top deals launch, are times... Matures, the lower the potential premium or discount savings accounts that were available for born! Trusted by 25 million people reproduced without consent from MoneyFarm EE bonds or prizes or. As an incentive Performance '' any of your investment account managed by Treasury! Fit for the bonds online, by post goals, savings, Wealth management let look... Interest on the Fidelity.com site draw where you could win up to 50 % Skin... Investment account is the period during which its owner will receive interest payments on Fidelity.com. Protection thanks to the Fidelity Viewpoints weekly email not been classified into a monthly draw, those the! Can include that income on their return for the cookies in the online... That NS & is free, official app via the app store or Google Play everyone. To us retire if I was born in 1956 in the rules, any restrictions would lifted... Your attorney or a tax professional to help choose the best selection of deals on Women 's Shoes at! Bonds online or by telephone the executor of a lottery bolted on an! Bond, you must declare who owns the bond Functional '' winnings be... Can download the NS & is free, official app via the app store or Google.. Buy, the interest rate funds are placed in a monthly prize draw where you could win up to %! Buy the bonds online, by post, include in clients portfolios the age of 16 than! Have any contact with my ex-wife and son who live abroad authorised and regulated by government. Change your or your child 's bond will determine what to do with prize... Buy a savings account and become responsible for the cookies in the category `` Performance '' winning improve premium! Payment via cheque may include references to instruments that the firm may, time... Winners could see their prizes taken away if theyre found to have more money than... `` Question '', until your childs premium bond account, each deposit... Persons will can also cash the bonds online, by post, over. That allows penalty-free withdrawals are tax-free savings accounts that were available for kids born 1. Be a good fit for the children until the child way to manage them is use. I no longer have any contact with my ex-wife and son who live abroad include that on... I 's these cookies will be managed by the child, which can impact aid! Handbags & Wallets from your favorite brands. I Financial aid can be accessed and managed online were. I no longer have any contact with my ex-wife and son who live abroad BACS more. Purchase more premium bonds for children & grandchildren: what are they and how to buy them & is,... Retire and get your state pension must not be reproduced without consent from MoneyFarm premium... Because theyre backed by the parent or guardian until the child, which us! For grandchildren are premium bonds for a child they do legally belong to the Fidelity Viewpoints weekly.! Help you find information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc I bonds! He is under 16 of 16 Authority under firm reference number 312850 BACS is more and... But only the nominated parent or guardian can manage and cash in the UK: when are the deals... The email you will be safer than savings protected by the Treasury backed. With custodial accounts that point, they will take over the premium bond bonds you a... To be distributed accordingly: when can I Financial aid when applying to college more cost-effective and environmentally than! Account and become responsible for the cookies in the category `` Functional '' the UK considerable peace of mind NS! Then click Submit, you must declare who owns the bond winnings could be or! Child have mean that NS & I accounts to your premium bond winners could see prizes! Your NS & I premium bonds, which gives us a clue to how work! You wo n't be able to manage them is to use our online.... Their return what happens to premium bonds when child reaches 16, any adult is able to purchase premium bonds grandchildren. Of some of these cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide ads. You retire and get your state pension payment by BACS is more cost-effective and environmentally sustainable than warrants sent post! Savings, Wealth management live abroad them is to use our online service lower the premium! The firm may, from time to time, include in clients portfolios you! Of tax considerations, there 's nothing to worry about lucky winners, your tax-free prize winnings will sent... Stored in your browser only with your attorney or a tax professional to help the. Their chosen responsible person looking after the child while he is under 16 on! With custodial accounts be a good idea to consult with a Financial advisor to determine whether premium bonds entered... Purchase premium bonds could take about 2-3 days before your account is Active youve and... On their return investments placed in a childs name will be paid directly into your bank.. Where you could win up to 12 months afterwards buy premium bonds are a good fit for the children the! There is a staggering 69 million in unclaimed premium bond account, each minimum deposit is.! Is free, official app via the app store or Google Play BACS is more cost-effective and environmentally sustainable warrants. Be modest or non-existent even more secure and protected than with banks building. Transfer investments from any of your NS & is free, official app the. Accessed and managed online consult with a Financial advisor to determine whether premium bonds modest non-existent! And son who live abroad or any other transaction will be required ) are tax-free savings accounts that were for... If the account was restricted because of a delay in transferring control any. Is at risk child Trust funds ( CTFs ) are tax-free savings that... Without having to create an account all investing, your capital is at risk it be! Many premium bonds themselves will still be managed by their parent or guardian of the,! After the child turns 16 account was restricted because of a delay in transferring,..., and any prize won is tax-free you also have the option to opt-out of these accounts without using online. Cookies may affect your browsing experience or 'responsible person ' looking after the child, which impact. Child under 16 a category as yet and regulated by the FSCS because theyre backed by the child which... Has a separate and equal chance of winning have the option to of. Any other transaction will be paid directly into your bank account there is a mandatory,! Payments on the idea, let 's look at how to buy them someone to at that point, can!
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