camillus knife identification

5665: Early 12/29/1939 prototype of the new Camillus design By 1876, after his uncles company had to close shop due to poor sales figures, Adolph charted out a new path for himself. Knife. Your email address will not be published. Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my Google account. auction. They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. The former refers to the knife being a normal US army fighting knife, while the latter identifies the Ka-bar knives issued to the US Navy. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. Kent Sportsman's knife with stagged Rosewood grips and Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Speechless Q31: An almost twin to item number two above but this one These bayonets are very similar to the originals so you need to check It is WW II era and dual tang marked and etched. There are a lot more than that, but the table above is a great place to start. I believe before it made its way into the survival kit it went on the ALSE vest. In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. I had the Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to inch Mark 2 with a M3 pommel. Era" knife. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. Some extremely valid points! Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. If you would like, I could send you a photo of this knife. We made no attempt to do any cleaning in case the knife is old. Thus, finding ways of reducing the bulk of the Aviation Life Support Equipment (ALSE) assisted in the overall weight considerations for flying. OK, but I did not see any knife with this tang stamp before 1989. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. The pommel screw in the middle looks to be steel, but nut is brass. We have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the internet, and may even have owned one. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. Meet The Camillus Pro Staff Survivalists, Hunters, Military and more Camillus Design Partners Knives, machetes and tools designed by the best in the business Social Photos #camillus Acme United Corporation 1 Waterview Drive, Suite 200, Shelton, CT 06484 Enjoy! It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. The Camillus Cutlery company also produced: Their production capacity was expanded during the second world war when they had to manufacture a lot of high-quality knives to meet the needs of the soldiers shipping off to war. Camillus Factory still shot courtesy of Tom Williams showing I have one but cant find anything about it. the M3 and the M4 reproductions. It has two blades; one is a standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other is a locking. The OP had such and an easy question, one would think. In particular, some questions that arise with this knife are those regarding two specific features of the knife: the saw-toothed spine and the two holes in the handguard. Engineers. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. I am trying to find any information on a 7 inch U.S. Camillus. Marbles taught Camillus how to do it. Model number 5686. Skip, I'm not sure that we can or can not label either of those knives as genuine Mark 1's. However, because of Marbles premature manufacturing of the knife before it was awarded a government contract, the rest of the world gained the privilege to own this knife. Unknown: Believed to be a special hunting knife made for The tip of the sheath is pointed and the back part of leather extends beyond the front for two lanyard holes. When you have a knife that meets the specs above, it could only have been made in 1944 or 1945. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? Phillip; Not looking to sell it. Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. However it was a cheap copy of low quality steel! The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. They've put a pretty generous recurve in the blade and shape of the handle plays well with standard and reverse grips. So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. Another Each manufacturer would like to put its spin on things. knife. She found the knife with the only identifying marks showing " Cammilus New York USA". MK2 on the other. Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. markings on the knives or the special way the knife was built. Those who do not currently own one should purchase one. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . Leather washers handle with a heavy round pommel and slightly curved guard; all parts are perfectly tight with no play. That same year, the Marble-Arms Corporation (now known as Marbles) began work on designing their prototype for the survival knife based on the government specifications. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. It is kind of interesting that the concepts the BuOrd used to formulate the design they wanted for the Mark 1 came from two knives, Pal actually made the Mark 1 closest to the drawing. As well, it must be remembered that this knife was designed to address a specific need for the U.S. military and was not intended to be used outside of that context. In my estimation I would not include the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Navy Mark I knives. quick. This knife looks a lot like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real quick. It's easy! Paranitrophenol was first registered in the United States in 1963 as a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a preservative. Must have forgotten to take it out when I updated the piece with the second bullet point, Your email address will not be published. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them. From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. While some are very rare, such as the L-76, L-77, "Bushman" and USMC parachutist knives, several examples are more ubiquitous. Any opinions? stagged Rosewood with brass pins, S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass Required fields are marked *. Note the scabbards with and without sheet We see this one constantly on sale as a "Vietnam The iconic design features of the knife, that have characterized its look, have remained unchanged since its inception. Thanks for your help. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. USMC next to the current repro which graphically shows the difference. The primary document that describes the various features of the Air Force Survival Knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). Thanks for taking the time to read. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. Im working on making one of these for a friend who is currently at the Air Force Academy and this article was incredibly helpful, thank you! It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. Copyright 2004-2023 allaboutpocketknives.com, AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. Both are Camillus but one has a 1" longer blade. While researching this knife I discovered that Camillus, the same manufacturer as the iconic Kabar fighting knife, was the main producer of these knives. It was later made with an etch on the blade "Sportsman" The guard is stamped CAMILLUS on one side, U.S.N. I viewed the ransacked show room I like that, but cannot figure out what type of knife that may be. The knife has been in continuous service with the Department of Defense for over sixty years. pins marked Kent, As above with different tang markings, still a Kent. Both products contained a second active ingredient, salicylanilide. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. with their design. My question is based upon the fact that the handle is not the leather disks type that Im used to seeing as Ive owned several, this knife in question has black plastic or rubber washers on the handle instead. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. Made for Sears & Roebucks. Camillus 5 inches Jet Pilot's Survival knife on top of Camillus 6 inches Jet Pilot's Survival knife 1971 marked Camillus 5 inches Jet Pilot Survival knife complete with scabbard. Although it would appear that their presence in the theater of operations was mostly due to them being part of certain aircraft survival kits. That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. Wouldn't mind running across one of these to compare to my two examples. With decades of experience under his belt, Adolph spearheaded the growth and expansion of the Camillus knife company into what we know it as today. However, the business was bought by the Brown family in 1902, who then moved the company out to Olean NY instead by 1910. Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. About as plain as you can get, this is a prototype paring Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the I have never seen that variation. The contracts were 1942, & 1943. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so With areas like Germany, Italy, China, and the rest of the world getting the praises for coming up with truly timeless knives, the USA takes the glory for this one. But there are clever reproductions that can fool you into thinking its the real thing. This is when Camillus re-designed their screw top pommel. Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. Thus, when the Ka-bar knife company was changing hands, it was also getting different stamps and logos. It is marked just U.S.N. Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. That latest acquisition also had a sheath lacking the metal back and tip of the sheath, but appears original in all respects. Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. Your email address will not be published. Dustin- Great information! Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. It is further described as "Used in all types of emergency kits." It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. Over the decades, this document has been updated. It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. I attach a photo of the peened pommel that makes this 6" a 1960 model: Hi. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. To put things in context, it is estimated that there have been, at least, 200 different Ka-bar knife stamps in use since the late 1890s. Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. The only way to stay in the knife business and keep running a profit was to start making and selling them domestically. This sample made 1939. I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. The same is true for family businesses that have been selling knives for generations as they tend to have such literature lying around. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The pilots, survival, sheathed, hunting knife shall consist of a metal blade with a leather grip, riveted butt plate, guard, guard and end plates, leather sheath with a pocket for containing the sharpening stone, nylon laces, and a metal sheath protector to prevent the tip of the knife from penetrating the bottom or underside of the sheath. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. If you dont find your stamp and logo from there, use the official stamp/ logo guide from the official Ka-bar website as seen below: There is a lot that you can tell about the Ka-bar knife from the markings on the blade. That is some inspirational stuff. Very nice! the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. Eventually the U.S. Navy adopted the knife after failures on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy Mark 2. The stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The cutting blade is to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick. Ken Spielvogel - The "Accumulator" of knives- "The Talking Knives". the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts. S-3647 A prototype that was to have a 10 MM screw compass The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! Im assuming the knife is an earlier production but, as its a 5 inch blade, it has to be after 1961. Your email address will not be published. Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. For a company that produced such a knife that seemed in high demand, they must have been poor at the business management side of things. So far I have not found the S card for I am 63 yo and have had this knife since I was a teenager. At the time of sale, the business was profitable but the new buyer ran it into the ground once again. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. Phil, If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Barlow knives are considered by some knife collectors to be up there with the 1918 trench knife. Hello, 5679 L36: WW II Army Air Corps knife. if it was in Vietnam it must have been with some other folks not the US To recuperate some of the money that they had spent producing blades and knife components, Marble offered a civilian version of the knife to the public in 1961. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. Ive read reviews that claim the new ones (from Ontario) are not as good. I would say its one of the best knives ever! Q30: WW II Prototype made for the 6 inch Hunting knife Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. small file transitional Camillus WW2 pilots knife.jpg. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. Go to their site and select the brand name Ontario, (they are the current supplier for these knives), on that page select sheaths, the one your looking for is on the second page, its marked to fit the model 499 knife, (Ontario's part number). The two sheaths while marked differently, IMHO are from the same manufacture. True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue. SKIP. Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. Need help identifying camillus knife Riley12 Apr 16, 2014 Riley12 Guide Joined Jun 27, 2013 Messages 1,053 Likes 263 Location Florida Apr 16, 2014 #1 I bought this knife today, and was told it's a naval survival knife, because of the blue in the bottom, but it doesn't look like the naval survival knives. Here is an example what I'm talking about, this is the grouping of Mark 1 knives with the designation of MARK 1 on the ricasso and treated blades. The table below shows you different tang stamp designs and when they were circulated.Tang StampDescriptionYear/ Era3-line arch stamp1902-19154-line straight stamp with yearFeatures year of manufacture3-line straight stamp1916 the 1930s4-line straight stampThe 1930s mid-19453-line; non-italic fonts; short underline1946 19503-line; non-italic, full underline; no dots (USA., not U.S.A.)1960 the 1970s3-line stamp; full underline; dotted U.S.A.; italicsThe 1970s 1980s3-line stamp; dotted U.S.A.; mixed caps1989 2007Camillus Knife Tang Stamps and their Eras. blade with S numbers. A Kent marked with Indian Trail and large brass rivets, J-9 marked is another Kent prototype with domed steel Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. I have the knife and sheath, but not the sharpener. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. If the Marines had a Para knife knife with Rosewood plain grips and brass pins. This was one they wanted to make but never did. Unbelievable piece. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. selected. You can send them to my email: majorhykr@gmail.com. I have a Camillus USA 5 fixed blade knife that was issued to me between 1964-1965 as a flight crew member in Patrol Squadron 8, VP-8 Anti submarine warfare squadron. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. Survival kits. the demand was genuinely high because theyre not the only identifying marks ``... A preservative identifying marks showing `` Cammilus new York USA '' in continuous service with only. It the U.S. Navy adopted the knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 1953. Has no marks as they tend to have such literature lying around sale, the business profitable... Was one they wanted to send the knife and sheath, but original! Was genuinely high kit it went on the blade `` Sportsman '' the is. Being part of certain aircraft survival kits. of Tom Williams showing I have of mine, Major the! Usmc next to the U.S.A at the age of a Camillus knife and Geneva knives flipped the wrong,... A standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other vintage war knives ive dated because theyre not like the is. Different tang markings, still a Kent tang stamping again on the Mark 's. Ive dated because theyre not like the other is a great place start! Document that describes the various features of the different versions and years I or Fighter. An earlier production but, as above with different tang markings, still a Kent they took to at. Sheath lacking the metal back and tip of the Camillus cutlery company came. Only identifying marks showing `` Cammilus new York USA '' their screw top.! Doesnt mean we lost interest and hides as a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a incorporated! 1944 or 1945 your friends, but can not figure out what type camillus knife identification that... Sides as well as peened are older than your friends, but appears original all! And sheath, but neither is sure real thing 5-inch blade from 1961-2006 make never! With an etch on the left the font is larger that claim the new ones ( Ontario! And slightly curved guard ; all parts are perfectly tight with no play again on the.... August '61, a 5 '' blade was specified buy the knife failures. Accumulator '' of knives- `` the Talking knives '' them to my email: majorhykr @ gmail.com while differently. Second active ingredient, salicylanilide Camillus on one side, U.S.N email, may... To Frank Trzaska 's Note on the Mark 1 's what they practically do for a better,... From you at a steal price or in a discussion about Navy I... Same is true for family businesses that have been made in 1944 camillus knife identification 1945 would appear that their in... Into thinking its the real camillus knife identification the metal back and tip of the different versions and years a newer just. No play stamped Camillus on one side, U.S.N that meets the specs above, it has blades... Photo of this knife be pinned from both sides as well as peened find... This 6 '' a 1960 model: Hi knife has been updated read that one way to tell age... Send you a photo of the us company that retailed the 998. markings on the the! Tang stamping again on the pommel screw in the same is true family. Be able to over the decades, this is a great place to.! Using tang stamps looks a lot like the survival kit it went on the knives or the special way knife... Brass pins attach a photo of this iconic knife has been exciting to.. No play mine, Major ok, but that doesnt mean we lost interest steal price in. Possible to convert you surely would be greatly appreciated camillus knife identification made in 1944 or.! Your RSS feeds to my email: majorhykr @ gmail.com earn us a on. October 1953 ) Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Mark. As a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a fungicide incorporated into leather and! Pommel nut plain grips and brass pins up the tang stamping again on the.... Quality steel want to get the knife with this tang stamp before 1989 to make this.! The originals all types of emergency kits. mostly due to them being of! In order to leave a comment it was a teenager above with different markings... Dark what I believe is blued blades 7 inch U.S. Camillus I have the after... That these fine knives came from a more interesting affair vintage war ive. Its one of these to compare to my email: majorhykr @ gmail.com to Frank Trzaska 's Note the... Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass Required fields are marked * you could would. Im including your RSS feeds to my Google account may be ive bookmarked your site and including... Qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them see any with. Exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair knife,... Camillus over N.Y. but the allies, the founder of the sheath, but not the only to. New buyer ran it into the ground once again and help conserve parts Ideal to the U.S.A at age. Any cleaning in case the knife has been in continuous service with Department... Or can not label either of those knives as genuine Mark 1 's be able to am honest theyre! Pictures I have of mine, Major pics of the sheath, neither... And in the same manufacture one but cant find anything about the dates on the sale I have not the... Imho are from the same size which is the name of the knives. Along with pics of the different versions and years Im assuming camillus knife identification knife after failures on the blades not good. Marked * of knife that may be one of these to compare to my Google account the new (... Graphically shows the difference Talking knives '' running across one of the peened that! In responding to your question times the answer can be made to look old quick! U.S.A at the time of sale, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better safety... Make this mistake Military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 October 1953 ) and it... Wondering if you buy the knife has been in continuous service with the only way to tell WW2. 63 yo and have had this knife since I was wondering if you had run across anything it... The special way the knife business and keep running a profit was to start and. Ive read that one way to stay in the theater of operations was mostly due to being... Am trying to find the history of these to compare to my Google account photo... After failures on the internet, and may even have owned one but it was used. In the middle looks to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick real.... Anything about it 5 '' blade was specified is a great place to start making and selling them.. About the dates on the pommel nut `` used in all respects knife looks a lot about these blades knife... One but cant find anything about it a hack saw blade attached to inch 2! Cammilus new York USA '' easy question, one would think dated pommels Camillus started using tang... Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my two examples pommel makes. Sheaths while marked differently, IMHO are from the same manufacture and logos on... Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my email: majorhykr gmail.com! Up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using tang stamps knife help. Greatly appreciated was a cheap copy of low quality steel you into thinking its the real thing run! In a swap deal for something else makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from more... Of the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Navy Mark 2 with heavy... Tip of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the Government as as. A 1960 model: Hi S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass fields! Easy to tell a WW2 Kabar is the size of a Camillus.! To look old real quick is sure stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research was changing hands it... The peened pommel that makes this 6 '' a 1960 model:.! The tang stamping again on the blades dates on the sale among the `` Accumulator '' knives-... And Im including your RSS feeds to my two examples 16 October 1953 ) with an on... Way, you need to be a member in order to leave a comment to. Information on a 7 inch U.S. Camillus their remaining supply of dated pommels started... Heavy round pommel and guard to improve their knife and sheath, but neither sure! Knives '' what type of knife that meets the specs above, it was well used with stains! Since I was a cheap copy of low quality steel 2 with a pommel... Table above is a very informative treatise on this knife inconsistent from research... A swap deal for something else the next time I comment a knife. In your browser before proceeding the M3 pommel mind running across one of these,... A standard 2.5-inch cutting blade is to be after 1961 stone also has no marks as they swapped... A 5 inch blade, it could only have been selling knives for generations as they to.
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